26 replies to this topic

[magic]

In 18th Feb there will be a referendum in Latvia where citizens will be able to vote for changes in Constitution for another language as official country language in Latvia. Citizens can vote either For for second language or Against. Therefor depending of the results Russian may become second official language in Latvia.

What would change? There would be two languages in signs on top of magazines, more Russian TV programs and Latvia once will be with Russian subtitles, magazines, street titles etc and there will be Russian language as obligated in schools. At least for now.

What is our future aka "at least for now"? I was in Belarus few times and was talking with Belarussians about this issue. They also have two official languages. They have Belarussian and they have Russian as official languages. The result is that no one even know Belorussian language anymore. Only ppl in deep country still can talk Belarussian or in city if you choose to study it but not everybody choose it. Their official language in metros, in few adverts and also in program of the festival that we attended was in Belarussian (and English) although hardly anybody could talk the language. That's why I was saying "at least for now" cause sooner or later if Russian will be accepted as official language, Latvian language would just die. This is now we have control of Russian language in Latvia when we can call special institution and complain about that some other institution or private person in public place (who gives services) don't speak Latvian. But if the Russian will be accepted then we will not have any control anymore, and our language will just die.

From my ranting about this I just have few things to say. I am wondering in what kind of society we are living in where we have to worry about our language and afraid of Occupant's language to be accepted as second official language. How can it be that foreigner from any other country can learn Latvian if just few months but Russians (although now saying all of them) can't learn language of the country they are living in for many years?!

In the end I wanted to mention some things from our history that would explain why we have many ppl in Latvia who speak Russian. Latvia was born in 1918. It stayed independent till 1942 when Russians occupied Latvia for the first time. From 1942 till 1949 we were first occupied by Russia, then by Germany, and then again by Russia. Russia sent many rich, famous, strong and educated Latvians to Siberia hoping they would just die there. And in the same time they offered Russian citizens cheap land in Latvia (lands of Latvians who were sent to Siberia) so they came. During Soviet Union nobody was allowed to talk Latvian, Latvian families were talking their language in their home only. Then in 1991 Latvia got back their independence and Latvian language became the only official language again.

I hope Latvians will not ignore this and will go to vote against. Even my bf will go and he never usually votes.

And as one MJ fan said some time ago, if Russian will become the second official language I will speak English then But I hope that will never happen

[magic]

Right now there is pretty much going on about the whole thing. Ppl from goverment that are for Russian language released some video some time ago that was made in rap style rapping about how hard it is for them, that they feel as slaves and how suppressed they are and now they have to unite and go against it. The video was full of hate and pressure. And now the same person made the latest video where he says other ppl try to make us angry and go to war against Russian. Although he was the one who asked to go to war in his video. That's all very ugly right now and the emotions are high. It's the main topic in Latvia at the moment.

[Sharon007]

Oh I hope you get to keep your language. A similar thing happened in Ireland. We had Irish/Gaelic as our language until the British came in the 17th century. Then when there was famine in Ireland in the 18th Century some people who spoke Irish died or went to other countries like USA or UK. By the end of British Rule the language was spoken by less then 15% of the population. I heard of people being beaten by the British for speaking Irish.

Since then, Irish speakers have been in the minority except in an area called The Gaeltacht where Irish is the only language spoken. Ongoing efforts have been made to preserve, promote and revive the language. Its officially recognized by Europe and now we have bilingual road signs, ATMs, and any government forms.

So in Ireland the British took over and now most Irish speak English. Others are very strong and will only speak Irish and if anyone speaks English to them they may not respond. Because they want to keep there heritage.

[magic]

it does sound similar. I don't want that to happen with Latvian too

[Eriny]

This is a disgusting situation. I think that it will cause tension even between Latvians and Russians who were friends till now. I mean, I would not be happy knowing that one (some) of my colleagues who are Russian have voted for Russian as second language. We're getting along very well, we speak both languages (and even more due to our profession) and I've never heard them complaining about feeling bad that they have to read inscriptions in Latvian or speak Latvian in a shop or with civil servants. But, at the same time I know that one colleagues husband doesn't speak Latvian at all. I was shocked that he couldn't answer me a simple question! OK, he understands what I'm saying, but - it's a one way communication. And - how will this family with two little children vote?...

I've been speaking Russian since my childhood, at school I didn't think about it as about "occupant's" language. I still think that knowing several languages makes a person richer. But I don't want to see coming back times when all the street names and shop names were in two languages, when somebody could offend you or refuse to speak to you in your mother's tongue just because he/she thinks that the other language is better.
Most Latvians are humble (the rest have left Latvia...), they don't fight back, so with time Russian could prevail...

[magic]

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But, at the same time I know that one colleagues husband doesn't speak Latvian at all.

Is he a citizen?

I've heard some Russians will vote against Russian language as second official. I hope.

I had a friend (well still have) who is Russian but talks very good in Latvian (Eriny also knows her). Her parents always were talking with me in Russian and I was replying in Latvian cause it was easier to me. I thought they understood that. But once after few years I replied something in Russian and they were wondering "Oh, you finally are starting to talk with us in Russian. You never did that before." Their reaction surprised me cause it's not like I am obligated to talk in other language if they understand my. I think it's ok to talk in language that is easier to you as long as other person understands you.

[Eriny]

magic, on 08 February 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Is he a citizen?

I've heard some Russians will vote against Russian language as second official. I hope.

I had a friend (well still have) who is Russian but talks very good in Latvian (Eriny also knows her). Her parents always were talking with me in Russian and I was replying in Latvian cause it was easier to me. I thought they understood that. But once after few years I replied something in Russian and they were wondering "Oh, you finally are starting to talk with us in Russian. You never did that before." Their reaction surprised me cause it's not like I am obligated to talk in other language if they understand my. I think it's ok to talk in language that is easier to you as long as other person understands you.

Yes, he's citizen, he took the "naturalisation" test. His wife, my colleague speaks perfect latvian, her father is Russian but mother Latvian. Their son goes to Lithuanian school where he learns in Latvian, and i think that their daughter goes to Latvian nursery school. But at home they speak to each other in Russian...

[magic]

Eriny, on 09 February 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Yes, he's citizen, he took the "naturalisation" test. His wife, my colleague speaks perfect latvian, her father is Russian but mother Latvian. Their son goes to Lithuanian school where he learns in Latvian, and i think that their daughter goes to Latvian nursery school. But at home they speak to each other in Russian...

If he took the test then how he can not speak Latvian? No citizens should speak Latvian to pass the test for citizenship.

[Eriny]

magic, on 09 February 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

If he took the test then how he can not speak Latvian? No citizens should speak Latvian to pass the test for citizenship.

I really don't know...

[magic]

The voting will happen this Saturday. Meanwhile somebody made a huge work PRET which translates as AGAINST near the Latvian TV building and one of the main bridges over Daugava.

[magic]

Some ppl forget or don't understand that it's not voting against Russian language or Russians but it;s against Russian language as official language in Latvia.

[soap]

magic, on 17 February 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Some ppl forget or don't understand that it's not voting against Russian language or Russians but it;s against Russian language as official language in Latvia.

I don't really understand your worries about this. But sure I'm not a Latvian.
But for all other people, Russian is already second official language of Latvia.

[magic]

soap, on 18 February 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I don't really understand your worries about this. But sure I'm not a Latvian.

My worries is that Latvian language will die cause Latvia is small country. There will be everything written in Russian. Maybe Latvian will not die now but in years it will. Look at the experience that Ireland and Belarus had. Both of their languages died and they don't speak their language anymore cause English and Russian are bigger languages. Latvian is one of the identities of Latvians as well as our own money Lat is one of our identities. That is something that our ppl was fighting for and died for. To have our own language. I am very angry about the fact that we have this referendum today. How it was even possible to have discussion about Russian language as official language. Russian belongs to Russia. Just cause Russians are so stupid or stubborn or uneducated to not learn Latvian language although they were born in Latvia and lived their whole life here doesn't mean that their language should become official. Stop be lazy, stop be stupid and learn the damn language.

But it's also Latvians fault cause Latvians are used to obey, to be polite and to be humiliated and they hardly ever fight. So Russians never had need to learn Latvian cause we always reply in Russian if they speak with us. Instead we have to reply in Latvian and speak Latvian with them so they would feel the need to learn Latvian. I am considering to reply "I don't speak Russian" whenever somebody comes to me on street and asks something. That is just ubelievable that you can't speak language of the country where you have lived your whole life

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But for all other people, Russian is already second official language of Latvia.

I don't understand what do you mean. Russian is not official language of Latvia and I hope it will never be.

[magic]

Me and my bf already went to vote and I am watching and reading news with trembling heart. I almost want to cry while reading news cause it seems like Latvians got their patriotism back today. There's almost 30% citizens who can vote has voted now. The activity today is bigger than in elections in the past years. Ppl offer their transports to take others to the voting stations on country sides. Ppl also gather together going there in full busses. There also unseen activity among citizens aboard. Like in Australia. In UK there are 9 voting stations located around the country. Many ppl who don't usually vote are voting today, like my bf is voting for the first time in 10 years probably.

I probably will not go to sleep till the result will be known which will be some time after the midnight.

[soap]

OK. I understand worries for loosing your language. But I don't think that will happen.
Also I don't think Denmark will loose anything for joining the Euro. I want the Euro. But mostly because it would be easier for me to shop in Europe.

I know I base my facts on Russian on very few people.
Most Danish people know English. But I think even more Latvian people/citizens know and speak Russian.

I also know all the trouble you used to have with Russia. Maybe that is still a reason for pushing the language away?

[soap]

magic, on 18 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

There's almost 30% citizens who can vote has voted now. The activity today is bigger than in elections in the past years. Ppl offer their transports to take others to the voting stations on country sides. Ppl also gather together going there in full busses. There also unseen activity among citizens aboard. Like in Australia. In UK there are 9 voting stations located around the country. Many ppl who don't usually vote are voting today, like my bf is voting for the first time in 10 years probably.

I think this is bad. If people care about the country, then they would be more interested in voting for politicians.
Also I guess the politicians are behind this new vote.

[magic]

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OK. I understand worries for loosing your language. But I don't think that will happen.

I don't think that Russian language will win in this referendum cause Latvians are very active but I still worry. If Russian language will become official then I think Latvian will die. Most of languages of Lettic language group has died already cause they were spoken among very less ppl, small nation. The only languages from Lettic language group that has survived is Lithuanian and Latvian (Estonian is not Lettic language). If we will not care about the last two Lettic languages, they will disappear. If Russian will become official language then Russians will not have need to learn Latvian anymore and Latvians would be forced to learn Russian... again...

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Most Danish people know English. But I think even more Latvian people/citizens know and speak Russian.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Russian should become official language. Many ppl in Latvia also know English but it's also not a reason for English to become official language in Latvia. Many Latvians went to Ireland but they don't even have a thought for having Latvian as one of the Ireland's official languages lol

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I also know all the trouble you used to have with Russia. Maybe that is still a reason for pushing the language away?

Yes, very much. It would be shame if language of the country that occupied Latvia, that sent our ppl to Syberia hoping they would die there, that forsed Latvians to speak Russian in Soviet Union and forbid ppl to speak Latvian at all, would become official language. Today is the result Russia's invading Latvia with violence and inhuman barbaric actions and that is one of the reasons I voted Against today. In 40s Germany also invaded us and if Russians wouldn't invade us after that and Germans would come to live here and the voting would be about German language as official language in Latvia, I also would vite against cause not Russian, not Latvian has never been native languages of Latvians. If from the time being we would speak other language or those dead languages that ppl in this area spoke I would probably wouldn't vote against. But Russian language came here will violence and blood.

More or less but if Russian language will become official in here that war that Russia started with Latvia since 40s will be won by Russia cause they would gain their aim - Russify Latvia. They already did it with other ex Soviet Union countries.

soap, on 18 February 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Also I guess the politicians are behind this new vote.

You guessed it right. I haven't heard Russians were speaking about that before. It was politicians who started it all around October last year.

[magic]

50% has voted till now.

I think the reason why ppl didn't vote in elections is cause they thought they will not change anything anyway. Or that there is nothing to vote for. Or cause they don't follow politics anyway and just don't know who to vote for. This time they know for what they vote whether it is for or against and I think everybody have their own strong opinion about it.

[magic]

In Ireland Latvians can vote in 4 voting stations. In Dublin about 200 Latvian citizens have to stand in a big line. Many citizens have came to vote with little Latvian flags and ribbons with colors of Latvia's flag attached to the chests.

Totally 2089 Latvia's citizens has voted in Ireland till 2pm.

In Australia around 300 ppl has voted (usually about 180 ppl vote in Australia) and the voting has ended there. Only 5 votes were For Russian language.

Some ppl spend 2 hours to get to the closest voting station.

In London ppl have to stand in line for hour to get to voting.


I am very thankful for those Latvians who are living aboard for many years but still care for Latvia and ppl living in there
Very active voting also happens in Sweden.

[magic]

I've just read about the leading politician who is for Russian language. He has been in prison is Latvia for protest actions in Russia, then sent out of the country to Latvia and has been respondent about preparing revolution in Latvia and keeping explosives. But in December he's been vindicated.A

Also he is trying to make impression for foreign countries telling that Russians doesn't have any rights in Latvia and they don't have citizenship. First, I think Russians in Latvia have very good life cause Latvians doesn't speak with them in Latvian but in Russian automatically. Second, every foreigner has right to learn Latvian and it doesn't matter where they come from. In the same time no one is forcing them to speak Latvian as Russia forced Latvians to speak Russian in Soviet Union. Also every person has right to pass citizenship exams so they can't complain about not having it.